We welcome Brett, the creator of the Takon Life head prop neck pillow to the show to share how he came up with the most comfortable travel pillow on earth and how it’s helping fulfill kids’ dreams of travel and sports. Brett shares his memories of traveling and partaking in outdoor activities and how that’s shaped his life and mission today. He also shares the behind-the-scenes details on how you create a product and the testing behind the world’s most unique and comfortable travel pillow. It’s Travel Squad Podcast tested and approved!
Use promo code TRAVELSQUADFIVE at takonlife.com for $5 off your order! Remember another $5 from every single order goes toward sending kids to the camp of their dreams!
Takon Travel Pillow Interview – Episode Transcript
Welcome to this week’s episode of the Travel Squad Podcast. Today we are inviting Brett, who is the Creator of the Pelican Travel Pillow by Takon.
Pleasure of getting to know Brett and experiencing the Takon travel pillow for ourselves. And it is amazing. Brett is also amazing. He is on a mission not only to sell the best, most comfortable, most amazing travel pillow that exists on earth, but he’s also on a mission to use a portion of the proceeds from the sales of this travel pillow to send kids to camp. He goes on in this episode to talk about his own experiences with traveling and, and doing sports activities as a kid and how that really shaped his life. And it really all comes together in this episode and with this amazing travel Pillow.
2 (1m 31s):
I know I can speak for all of us at the Squad when I say we really enjoyed having Brett on the episode. What I found really interesting about our conversation with him as it evolved is he really came up with this idea from life experiences, from traveling as a child to young adult. And he saw a market and he seized on it. And like you said, Kim, we experience these travel pillows and they are so unique, so much more comfortable than your traditional one. And on top of that hearing about his childhood and traveling, that is where he came up with the idea to take some of these proceeds from the sales of these pillows and put it towards a good cause in sending kits to camp and situations in which they could travel as youngsters and all in all the Takon travel pillow.
2 (2m 20s):
0 (2m 21s):
You all can experience the travel pillow for yourself. Brett has been kind enough to offer all of our squats, a $5 off discount for every pillow order. You just have to go to their website, takonlife.com. And use the promo code TRAVELSQUADFIVE all is spelled out and you’ll get five bucks off your order. Also, they’re on sale right now. So keep your eyes open for sales as they come through this holiday season.
2 (2m 47s):
And with that, let’s welcome Brett to the Travel Squad. Podcast
0 (2m 55s):
Brett, welcome to the show. We are so excited to have you on today.
4 (2m 60s):
Hey, thanks for having me. It’s nice to meet you guys. Finally,
0 (3m 3s):
This interview is a long time coming. We first talked a couple months back about the Takon pillow and so we’re amped to finally have you on.
4 (3m 11s):
Yeah, no, I’m happy to be here. I think, you know, for your listeners, I had to, you know, convince you guys by sending you some pillows and get, you know, figure out that I wasn’t just trying to steal your email address or something. So it worked out.
0 (3m 24s):
Yeah, we’re really, really glad that you reached out and we’re gonna get all into the pillow, the design, how you got here and all of that. But we like to start all of our guest interviews by going way, way back and asking about what is one of your first travel memories.
4 (3m 41s):
This one took me a little bit to think about here. So I think my first big travel memory was, I was probably seven years old, something like that. One of my, my cousins is a, she was like a world-class softball pitcher. So they were in this national tournament in San Francisco and I grew up in South Dakota. So, you know, we tiny little town, like none of us have even left the state hardly. And my mom’s like, well, we’re driving to California to go watch your cousin play in the national tournament. And you know, we didn’t really have, we had a car, you know, we didn’t really have the right vehicle. So we borrowed a van from somebody, this big van. And if you remember those like, like conversion vans, they have, I dunno if your listeners would know this, but they have like the little table in the backseat where you, you stick the pin in the ground and you can put like a little foot and a half wide table and then you can like set your drink on it or whatever.
4 (4m 31s):
But I just remember thinking that was the most awesome thing, like, why don’t we have this van? You know? And but then after six of us in the van for 24 hours driving from South Dakota to California, I was like, yeah, I don’t, I don’t want a van. I, it’d be nice to fly next time, but that’s, that’s kind of my first memory. And you know, I really got, got me going though. I, I think as far as leaving the state and, and finally seeing the ocean for the first time and it was
0 (4m 56s):
Super cool. Got the travel bug in you from a really young age.
4 (5m 0s):
Absolutely. Yep. Road Trips.
0 (5m 2s):
So you, you’re here on the show because of your travel Pillow, but also because of the kids’ take on Camp Foundation and we’re gonna go all into that. But first let’s, let’s just get into your mind of like, how did you even come up with the idea of wanting to create a travel pillow, knowing that there’s tons of them out there already. Like, what possessed you to want to do this?
4 (5m 26s):
So the, the story that kind of came to mind on that would be another road trip story in high school. I was, believe it or not, in marching band, which I hate to admit, and also I did every second of it, but they kind of enticed you into sticking with it every four years. And in my high school they do this big trip and it’s like a band trip. So that year, you know, like I said, I grew up in South Dakota, but that year the trip was in New York City. We were gonna march in the Macy’s parade, you know, and I was like, wow, cool, that’s cool. I guess, you know. So 180 of us band members hop on three Greyhound buses and drive for, you know, two or two and a half days straight, basically. I don’t know if you’ve ever been on a bus trip, but it’s like, you think airplane travel’s rough.
4 (6m 7s):
Like no, you stop for everything and everybody’s gotta go to the bathroom and somebody’s gonna puke and you know, it’s just like too long, too many people in one spot. So the thing I kind of took from that on that trip was like everybody’s trying to figure out how to sleep, you know? And so you’re sitting there and you’re next to hopefully a friend of yours, but a lot of people, you know, you’re next to whoever you end up getting sat next to. And I’m like, I don’t like sharing a bed anyway. Sorry to, but you know, it’s like, I was like trying to figure out somewhere to lay my head and there’s people laying in the aisles, there’s people laying under the seats, there’s people, oh my gosh, off each other and nobody showered in, you know, 24 to 48 hours. And, and I think that was really, I had a Pillow like, you know, they told you to bring a blanket and a pillow.
4 (6m 50s):
I, it was Thanksgiving times, so it’s a little chilly in the Midwest. And so I had a Pillow, but I was like, where do you lead it? You know? And so that was kind of the biggest thing for me was like, after that I’m like, I gotta get a travel Pillow. ’cause some people had ’em and you know, they seemed to work. But then once I finally got the, the actual travel pillow and figured out, I’m like, well this doesn’t really do anything either. It kind of became this lifelong thing where I’m like, okay, if I’m gonna fly or I’m gonna travel, I need to be in a window seat ’cause I need something to lean against. And you know, it’s just, I, I can’t do the aisle where you’re constantly worrying about who you’re tipping over onto. And then the windows, you know, it’s just like the perfect spot to sit. So I think that’s where it all kind of stemmed from, but the Pillow didn’t come till way after that.
4 (7m 31s):
So I, I suffered for a long time before I really decided to, to do it.
1 (7m 35s):
I was gonna say, you know, I am just like you where like, I like the window so that I have something to lean up on because with the smaller travel pillows, it just doesn’t give you enough support. So even if I have it on my neck, I end up leaning on either the window or Jamal and I know him. You’ve actually been guilty of like falling asleep on someone else. You
4 (7m 56s):
And I and you know, when we researched like how to make this thing and all that, like you wouldn’t believe how many people are like, yeah, I just fall asleep on whoever’s next to me. I’m like, it takes balls, you know, to just fall asleep on whoever happens to be next to you. Right.
2 (8m 9s):
Well Kim did that one time. She had no shame. Luckily it was a nice person, but like Bernie, Jen alluded to right now, like, usually she’ll sleep on me. And you mentioned earlier how, you know, you ended up sending us the pillows so we can try it. And we just recently used it, all of us on a long haul flight, Kim from the US to Greece, me and Brittany from the US to Germany. And this is the first time Brittany never leaned on me because of ports. When we talk about the pillow and how it supports, it’s just like she didn’t need to lean on me. And I was like, oh my gosh, I’m so much more comfortable now because of this pillow. Well, and
4 (8m 45s):
Inevitably you gotta pee the second she falls asleep. Right? So you’re like,
2 (8m 49s):
Yeah, absolutely. I give her the tap on purpose when she immediately falls asleep to get out.
4 (8m 53s):
That’s hilarious. No, that’s good to, to hear. And that’s, that’s what it was. It was just like, you know, basically being able to have somewhere to lean all the time. Our, our slogans kind of sleep anywhere, you know, and it’s like that’s a nod to travel. Like, hey, go travel anywhere and then sleep will help you do that. But also like, literally sleep anywhere. I mean you can, I’ve fallen asleep sitting up in my desk chair with this thing on just like, you know, trying to plan my next move. But it, it works.
0 (9m 19s):
Yeah. And I really appreciate that you sent it at the perfect time. So I was going to Greece, I used it throughout that whole trip. I used it on a ferry where there’s no wall, it’s just aisle, really on both sides. It was the most uncomfortable situation until I remembered I had my pillow tied to my bag and it completely changed the next two hours of that ferry ride. It was amazing.
4 (9m 41s):
Oh, that’s awesome.
0 (9m 42s):
And I also used it with my partner. We like put it between us and we both could lean on it, so Oh cool. If Brittany does fall asleep on you again, Jamal like you both get a little Pillow this time. Yeah.
2 (9m 54s):
Or we could put the pillow side by side and just use it like as extra supply on. Exactly. So we, we keep talking about the pillow and I promise you we’re gonna get into it, but I really just really have just in general a travel question for you that I’m really curious about. You obviously felt the need to create a travel Pillow that was just completely unique in design and comfort compared to the norm. And I’m just curious, in addition to your travel Pillow, what are some items that you’d recommend for successful and enjoyable travel that you can’t leave without just in generality?
4 (10m 28s):
You know, my, my wife always kind of, well I guess we do it to each other, but we kind of pull out of the driveway when we’re on our way to the airport in Phoenix and we live pretty close to the airport, but we’re always like, okay, you got everything. And we always kinda laugh. We’re like, we’re not going to, you know, Cape Town South Africa or something, we’re going to Denver, you know, there, there’s gonna be anything you need there and along the way, right? For the most part. But the biggest thing I think that I keep is snacks. Like I have to have. Yeah, right. So I’ve got this backpack that I always travel with that’s got the little laptop sleeve right when you’re in, you know, any kind of e-commerce or anything like we are, you know, you always gotta have your computer with you even if you don’t want to, but, so that’s cool, that backpack’s great for that. But beyond that, like I have mixed nuts and I have granola bars at all times and I’m not like a super health freak or anything, but I’ve found out like those are the most punch for your buck when you’re trying to save space.
4 (11m 19s):
So like, you know, if you guys have ever traveled to like Pier South Dakota, probably not. You know, it’s a tiny little town and there’s a, a nice airport, but there’s no restaurant in there. So it’s like if you get there early and the plane doesn’t show up and you’re like, you know, and a lot of times the plane doesn’t show up, you might be there for three or four hours just kind of waiting. There’s nothing to eat, you know, so it’s like having that there is, that’s priceless. But, so I always have granola and, and nuts, but the other thing I started doing was, you know, I think everybody has these, you know, Stanley cups to put up now, but the vacuum insulated tumblers are awesome, but I’ve been taking like the ones that actually have the screw on lid, like a hydro flask, just take an empty one in my backpack too. And so again, when you’re sitting at the airport, you’re not buying like an $8 bottle of water all the time.
4 (12m 3s):
But the kind of unspoken bonus of that is, you know, it’s, it’s a great way to smuggle cocktails around when you’re on vacation, you know, and nobody’s gonna question. Oh yes. Right. I love your style and thought process on that. I love it.
0 (12m 18s):
Keys to success are secret cocktails and snacks. Yeah,
4 (12m 21s):
Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, that’s probably my biggest things, you know? And then I think the keys are, you know, springing for having just an extra charger in your travel bag all the time. So you just know it’s in there, right? I mean, you’re always gonna forget your phone charger if you have to unplug it every time. And so stuff like that. But yeah. Yeah, that’s kind of what I’m into. I
1 (12m 39s):
Totally agree with you. I love your thought process and I, that was a great question from Jamal, but I wanna get back to the pillow. And you had mentioned obviously this road trip that you took, how that kind of inspired you, that bus trip. But what was it, ’cause you said you suffered for a long time, years later. What was it that like actually propelled you to create a pillow and how did that come about?
4 (13m 1s):
It was, again, after traveling. So I think the, the biggest thing was, you know, after years of that, you know, and then we actually got into a, a, a friend of mine and I, you know, I, I had a construction company for a long time, which I just kind of wound down in this last year. But building houses, that was my full-time job. He lives in Montana doing, you know, his stuff. And so we’re like, yeah, you know, we’d like to travel more. Like how can we do that? Like, we should start a little business that’ll help us make some side money that we can just kind of use as our travel fund, you know? So we like googling how to make a side hustle, you know, and it inevitably pops up, like start a business selling on Amazon. We’re like, well hey, we could do that, right? So we start selling bachelorette party products in like 26, if you can imagine.
4 (13m 43s):
And so, yeah, none of the penis, penis suckers or anything like that, some of the other stuff. But we were doing that for a while. And honestly like, I, I don’t know how I stumbled upon it again, but I, we were traveling a lot back and forth, but I stumbled upon travel pillows again and I was like, oh yeah, I should get one. ’cause you know, we’re going to trade shows and stuff like this. And I was like, man, I haven’t bought one of these in years and they’re still terrible. And I, and I think from having our connection with the Amazon thing, we were ordering things from, you know, suppliers that could manufacture anything. And I was like, man, I wonder if we could get a travel pillow made, you know, and like do our own thing. And, and that started this like whole process of anybody. I mean, if you’ve ever created anything from scratch, like even cookies, you know, it’s, it’s not easy, right?
4 (14m 29s):
So I thought it was gonna be this quick and easy thing, Hey, we’ll design one, I can sew like I took home ec, you know, like, we’ll figure out how to make right, it’ll be awesome. And honestly like took us down this rabbit hole and he fell out of it. He wasn’t really into it anymore after a couple months, but for some reason, for about three years I was iterating this thing and just like I kept tweaking the design and trying to get it right and it’s, man, it’s hard as, as you all can attest and anybody who’s ever bought a mattress or a pillow or anything, it’s like it’s really hard to find one. You know what works for you might not work for Jamal and vice versa, right? So yeah, but that’s kind of how it started.
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Be sure to head over to Travel Squad Podcast dot com to download your very own comprehensive travel itinerary today. Well, so we’ve been talking about how normal travel pillows in general and what we mean by that is the like little half semi-circle that go around your neck, et cetera. So why don’t you tell us a little bit about your design, what makes it so unique and how it’s different than your normal travel pillow?
4 (18m 47s):
Sure, yeah. And yeah, you know, I call it the u-shaped pillow, the original ones, you know, and, and if you think about the way the neck is attached to the head and vice versa, like the head’s this heavy thing on top of this little skinny thing, right? So a neck Pillow goes around your neck, the u-shaped pillows, well you still have this big heavy head on top of it to, to support, right? So that pillow underneath, unless it comes up really high, isn’t actually gonna hold your head up. And, and that was like an epiphany that took me way longer to realize than I should have. But I’m like, you’re not trying to support the neck, you’re trying to support the head, which happens to be attached to the neck. So I like to think of this for a, a visual for your listeners.
4 (19m 27s):
Like it’s like a little kickstand for your head. It, it kinda like, just like holds your head in a position and rests itself on your shoulder. So you’ve got support touching your cheek and you’ve got it resting on your shoulder and that kind of fills the gap in between there so your head can stay upright and, and that’s the biggest difference. It it actually runs up the side of your face a little bit and, and will hold your head in a comfortable
0 (19m 50s):
Position. And it certainly does. And there’s also a piece that you could wrap around your head or your, your chin and the the like Velcro it so it stays there. But I found on my trips I didn’t even need to really use that strap. It more or less stays there and it does exactly what you’re saying. It supports the head, it’s so comfortable you can put it in the front on the side. I even used it two different ways, one, to kind of support the tailbone area when I was sitting on that plane for like 12 hours. Sure. And then another time used it as a footrest because I’m five two and my feet don’t fully touch the ground on a plane.
4 (20m 27s):
Yeah, exactly. No, and, and that’s kind of some of the fun thing of this whole process has been like hearing from customers and, and friends and family and everybody like, hey, I’ve been using it this way. Like one of my best friends, he’s six foot four, you know, he is a bigger guy, doesn’t really even travel that much, but he bought one to support us, you know, but he’s like, oh it’s great. I put it in between my knees when I sleep. You know, and you know, a lot of people do that to keep their knees from hitting and keep their spine and their hips in alignment and stuff like that. So yeah, there’s a lot of different ways to use it and, and to your point, the the strap it comes around. I tell people too, people are like, I don’t like something around my neck. So if for you’re listeners again, like this thing kind of rests against your cheek and on your shoulder and then there’s a sort of a thin scarf material that comes around that can hold it in place for you.
4 (21m 12s):
You don’t have to put it on tight. So it’s, it’s just kind of like you said there to keep it in place but it sort of does its job without it, which you know, is pretty cool. But the side effect that I do like about using it is you can actually put it over your mouth and your nose, you know, so it does kinda work like a mask when you’re flying. I mean I know covid is over but I think, you know, you still get sat next to the runny nose coughing guy when you’re on the way to your one vacation, you get a year right? You’re like, I don’t want to be holed up with Covid while I’m in Jamaica. But, you know,
1 (21m 41s):
You know, it’s funny that you mentioned how it goes over your, your nose and mouth because the first time I used this pillow it was on a shorter trip and we, Jamal and I were flying from San Diego to Kansas City and I had, I’m a nurse so I just got off a 12 hour night shift, got off at, you know, 7:30 AM went to the airport probably around like 10 30, 11. So I am about dead at this point. And, but I like to do that and I put the travel pillow on while we’re in the airport ’cause I’m like, if I could just close my eyes while we’re waiting for a flight, this would be great. And I start to wrap it around me and people are looking at me like, this girl is crazy. And I’m just like, I don’t even care. It’s so comfortable.
4 (22m 22s):
I appreciate that. And and that’s the thing about it is I’m like, you, you throw shame out the window when you’re traveling anymore. It’s like anything you can do to be comfortable, I’ll, I mean if you could lay on the floor in the aisle like we did on the bus trip, I mean I would totally do it because I mean airplanes like that quit putting recline in the seats, like seat closer together. Like seats are narrower. I saw a thing the other day, I think it’s like Air Philippines or something like that. They’ve got a, a patent pending for seats where you’re actually sort of standing up but you’re just barely sitting. So that like narrows your profile so they can cram the rows closer. I mean, you know, all this stuff in the name of make it a little bit more money. And I’m like, yeah, I I would wear a bubble wrap suit if it wasn’t too hot, you know.
2 (23m 8s):
Well I’ll I’ll tell you what, your pillow definitely adds comfort game to the travel game and that is for sure, I’ve never experienced one that I’ve enjoyed more, quite honestly. And like we were mentioning and you said too, you could use it for a lot of different purposes and different ways to make yourself comfortable on it. So people should just try on that. And of course you guys have the YouTube video that really tells you how to actually support it on your face for your neck and head just as well, but multiple uses on that. You mentioned how a friend of yours, of course, the one who put it between his legs, he just bought it to support you and that sense of things since he’s not too big of an avid traveler. Right? Right. But let’s talk a little bit about the support that you give whenever somebody buys a pillow.
2 (23m 53s):
Why don’t you tell us a little bit about the camp?
4 (23m 55s):
Yeah, so one thing we wanted to do when we started this whole thing, well I, I should say me, you know, I personally, I was driving this for a long time and then, you know, my wife came into the picture on it later on, but she’s also a nurse, so she’s got a full-time job. But you know, I kind of, I had this upbringing that was unique because I grew up in a town where it was very small, very middle class to lower class. I mean just not, you know, a a poor ish little town, you know, just a typical Midwest town. Nobody had a whole lot. And if you got to travel, that was a big deal. And we, we did a little bit of family road trip stuff, but I was pretty good friends with one of the kids in town who, you know, kind of had money. I don’t know what that means by today’s standards, but he had more than the rest of us did.
4 (24m 36s):
You know. And so his family was always going on these cool trips and they always asked me to come along so I get to do, you know, like these really cool ski trips and they had a lake cabin and we always go up there for the weekend and, you know, some of my most cherished lifelong activities like, you know, fishing and, and snowboarding and golfing, all those kind of came outta some of those experiences with, with friends like that. And I didn’t realize really till like, I don’t know, years later in life that that was such a big foundation for me, you know, and, and to be able to do things that, you know, my family maybe couldn’t afford. It was awesome. So what I decided as I was like, you know, I really wanna give kids the same chance that I had like kids that basically have ideas about what the rest of the world might be like, but maybe they grow up in small town South Dakota and they’re just like, yeah it sounds cool, but you know, my mom said we can’t afford that kind of thing.
4 (25m 30s):
So I actually started something called Kids Takon Camp Foundation and that’s a play on our name Takon. But for every pillow we sell, we donate $5 of the purchase price and not profit is $5 of the purchase price. So even if we don’t make a dollar on it, you know, we’re still putting the money into the bin, but $5 towards sending a kid to camp. And you know, people ask me all the time, so you’re working with underprivileged kids, you’re working with, you know, inner city kids, what, what’s that like? And, and I, I say no, you know, there’s a lot of foundations that already work with underprivileged kids and you know, at risk youth and things like that. And I feel like there’s kind of this spot where some of these, like middle of the country, middle of the road, maybe not poor, you know, maybe not straight A students, maybe not F students, just your average kid in middle America, you know, doesn’t have a chance to do some of these things that, you know, he sees on Instagram or you know, he sees in the movies and he always dreams about maybe going to see the ocean or you know, take a surf camp in California or you know, take golf lessons in Arizona.
4 (26m 33s):
You know, something like that. So that’s what I really wanted to focus on was, you know, kids that are good kids that if they don’t get this chance, they might not ever have an experience where they get to see that there’s more to the world than what they already live. And I think for me it was, it was such a big deal. I’m like, I wanna give that to as many kids as possible. So we haven’t set a limit on it, we’re gonna donate $5 from every pillow we sell. You know, we’re asking, you know, anybody wants to donate extra, you know, we’re happy to take that too. But you know, put that towards just sending your good old American kids to camp.
1 (27m 6s):
I really love that. I think that’s like fantastic. And even growing up, there’s so many people now that I’ve met where I’ve asked them, where was your first time traveling? And they haven’t been out of state, they haven’t been out of country. Like even in San Diego we live right next to a border, so it’s amazing how many people I interact with where they just don’t have the opportunity. The means just like the family culture was never like that. So being able to have that opportunity, whether you’re in middle of America or not, like that’s great for, for kids all around and I think that helps open them up, be more well-rounded and definitely helps like develop their character in the future as well.
4 (27m 46s):
Absolutely. And you know, I think it’s for kids that don’t understand, you know, when they’re, they’re young and they’re like, well why can’t we do that? You know what I mean? And I think giving them a chance to be able to do something like that, like you said, it really expands their horizons and it, and it’s like, hey, that isn’t just for people on Instagram. Like I can do that. And then you kind of like, what happened with me at least is I was like, well I wanna work hard and I wanna be able to do more of that. You know, and I think it kind of develops this personality type where you’re like, okay, I do realize that that is out of the norm for where I came from, but if I work a little bit harder and save some money and, and make that kind of a priority in my life, then you have something to to work towards. You know, if, if you just say, well hey, I’m a farm kid in South Dakota and that’s all I’ll ever be, you know, I think you leave a lot of potential on the table and these kids never really fully develop and I would love to have a a hand in helping that.
4 (28m 36s):
0 (28m 37s):
That’s amazing that your personal experience is really shaping what you’re doing here. And it’s like, look at you, you got those experiences as a kid because of your friend and their family and it probably has shaped your passion for golf or fishing today, but also this business that you created. So by helping these kids get to camp and open the world to them, you’re not only just showing them activities and travel and outside of their city, but they’re gonna be potentially future business owners or teachers or who knows the president of the United States. Like anything’s really possible.
4 (29m 14s):
Yeah, I said I wanted him to be successful. Not, No, I think you’re right on with that. And you know, I, like I said, I didn’t realize that I just knew I always had expensive hobbies when Im younger, right? So I’m like, well I gotta figure out how to pay for these things. But later on down the road, you know, as I’m, you know, I’m 40 now, I’m 40 years old and it’s like, I still love to golf. I still am very average at golf. I love to golf at, but I love to snowboard, love to fish, like all these activities too that were like healthy physical outlets, you know, and they, they’re also very travel related type of hobbies, right? I mean, you can ski in one spot, but you can also ski a thousand places around the world and it’s like, just kind of opens again your horizons and then fishing.
4 (29m 58s):
I mean, you know, you can do that millions of different ways and it, it just kind of expands your mind on what’s possible. It expands your body on, hey, I’m gonna be physically active when I go on vacation rather than just an, you know, all-inclusive cruise ship where I just eat and drink to oblivion. You know, which there’s a time and place for that too. But, you know, so I think that’s it. It’s all of it. So it, yeah, it’s, it’s inspiring to me.
0 (30m 22s):
Do you have any goals you’re trying to hit like five kids by next year or a million kids by the time you see this business, you know, pass on, anything like that?
4 (30m 33s):
So we haven’t set a hard goal because I have been reluctant to limit it I think, but I’m like, I wanna send as many kids as possible, right? So I’m like, that keeps it vague and everybody says goals need to be, you know, measurable and, and have it to ’em. So, but I still haven’t really decided on that. I mean, if we can do five in the next year, I would be very happy about that. But the thing we’re trying to really do rather than put a limit on you know, how many or put a a a guess on how many is, we’re trying to not limit what the interaction or what the camp will, will look like. So I mean if this kid happens to want to go to on the first SpaceX flight, right? And that’s $270,000, maybe that’s the one we do, you know, if we, okay, not really, but you know, I mean it, I grew up always wanting to go to this snowboard camp in California and it was, I think at the time it was like $7,500 or something like that, which is still a lot of money, but you know, it’s probably, I have no idea if it’s still around, but it’s probably 15 or $20,000, you know, so I mean these are big things.
4 (31m 35s):
So yeah, to answer your question, no we don’t have a limit on it or a goal necessarily, but I want ’em to be big enough things that the kids really get a lot out of it. So.
2 (31m 46s):
Well before we kind of circle back around to the pillow, ’cause I do wanna get in that, ’cause I actually have quite a few questions on it. Just speaking about the camp right now and just kind of what you mentioned about that 250,000 for like SpaceX, how does a kid get involved in it? Is there like a signup? Is it specific to kids in a certain region? Because I know we get dms sometimes from a younger audience just as well or parents will message us, say we listen to your podcast with our kids. So for those kids who are out there listening right now, how can they get involved in this?
4 (32m 19s):
Absolutely, yes. So the best way to do it is to go onto our website, it’s take on life.com and just go to our contact page. So there’s not a terribly formal process to this yet. Again, as you guys can tell, and we’ve only just started selling the pillows really as of June. So we’re a pretty new company. But if you go to contact us page on our website and just, you know, type in the subject line like camp idea or something like that and you can pitch anybody you want right there if somebody, you know, if there’s a grandma listening who’s got a grandson or you know, an aunt who’s got a nephew or or whatever, and not just boys girls too, right. You know, just make a pitch. And like I said, it doesn’t have to be, and I honestly prefer, it’s not like a sob story or like a, you know, something where, you know, this is his make a wish kind of thing.
4 (33m 3s):
’cause we’re not really equipped for that necessarily. But just make a pitch and, and tell us why you think this kid deserves this. And you know, we’re, we’re happy to look into, we’ve got a list started already and to answer your question further, Jamal, we have been looking mostly just in Phoenix because we’re limited right now on just capacity to deal with what’s going on with the this and, and then this as well. So been looking in Phoenix and taking some, some ideas from people and yeah, we’ve got it well underway for the the first one. So how
0 (33m 31s):
4 (33m 33s):
It’s pretty cool.
0 (33m 34s):
That really just brings so much more than just a business which is already so rewarding and the pillow is amazing, but then you’re making a difference in people’s lives and it I’m sure really fuels the late nights and the early mornings and the long hours that you’re putting towards this.
4 (33m 52s):
It totally does. And I mean you can see like, like the pro athletes in Phoenix here that work with kids a lot, you know, it’s, they always have that stuff on the news and you can always see on the faces of the athlete whether they’re happy to be there or not, you know, and it’s like, it’s pretty obvious whether their publicist said you should go or whether they, you know, started the foundation actually on their own. And, and for us this is just like a, this is a real thing and I have a son now, you know, and I’m like, if I can give him like half of that experience, you know, it’s such a huge thing. So
0 (34m 21s):
That’s amazing. Right now your pillow is sold on your website and on Amazon. Are those the only two places?
4 (34m 28s):
Yep. That’s the best place to do it. You know, you can buy ’em in either one. A lot of people like Amazon just ’cause they already have their prime account set up and stuff like that. But we would prefer if you bought on the website because we get to interact with, do a little better on the experience if something goes wrong or, or whatever. But yeah, either one works. As
0 (34m 45s):
I was walking through the airport on my most recent trip, I noticed all of the travel pillows in all of the stores and I really feel like your pillow needs to be in the airport stores. It, it would crush those other pillows and that’s the perfect place where people, you know, are in the moment for those last minute purchases. They forgot theirs. Yeah. Do you have any plans potentially to get in there?
4 (35m 10s):
I would love to. So again, as a, as a startup business, it’s funny, it’s not as simple as just selling your items. You actually like working with a, a brook stone or one of those airport companies. They’ll have a rollout plan where they’re like, okay, well we need 10,000 of your pillows and we’re not gonna pay you until they sell. And if they don’t sell, you know, we’re gonna give ’em back to you and you’re gonna pay the return shipping. You know, so it’s, it’s a, it’s a big bit to bite off right now, but we would really love to, and I’m, I’m the same as you. I every time I, obviously I’m biased, but I walk through those bit on ’em a little bit and kick ’em and those other pillows, right? Because I, I just feel bad and I see somebody spending $40 on those things ’cause they don’t do anything.
4 (35m 51s):
But I get it too. It’s the last chance you have before maybe 13 hour flight to, you know, Brussels, right? And you’re like, I need something. So yeah, I would love to be there. My dream, honestly for this thing would be if we could have a vending machine in the airport that sold them. So it was its own thing and it definitely stood out and you know, you made it a point to go there and get it and you know
2 (36m 15s):
What, where you need to put that vending machine in the airport right next to the Kylie Vening machines.
4 (36m 20s):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
2 (36m 22s):
Because everybody, I always see over that one and then they’re gonna go over and be like, oh, now I need something for a little bit of comfort,
4 (36m 28s):
You know, just as more on that one. Yeah. But I love
2 (36m 30s):
0 (36m 31s):
And you can have your video playing on how to use it and I would love for you to talk about that because that’s something that you warned us when we first got the pillow was watch the video. There’s a lot of different ways to try it. You have to keep trying different positions. So what are some of the positions you recommend? Yeah,
4 (36m 48s):
So, so this is definitely geared towards if you picture yourself sitting in your airplane seat. Like some people like to just lean their head straight back, right? And just head into the, the seat and, and sleep that way. And this really isn’t for that. It’s more for the people who like kinda lean to the side just a little bit or slightly even lean, maybe a little bit forward. It’ll prevent your chin from falling forward. It’ll prevent your head from falling to the side in those situations. But yeah, the, the biggest thing is just trying to figure out, you know, where it feels comfortable on you because it is different. And when people first get it, we, and we found this out the hard way, people first get it and they’re like, you we’re getting these pictures from people and it’s like, you know, strangled around their neck, like below their neck, just not how it’s supposed to go.
4 (37m 34s):
So I had to create this video that we actually linked to on, on our website and then also there’s a QR code on every Pillow we saw that says, Hey stop, watch this video, check it out, you know, to kind of figure out where it is and we call it your sleep sweet spot. So everybody’s a little bit different and like I said, there’s gonna be people who probably think this is the, the worst thing in the world, but there’s a lot of people who would think this is the best sleep they’ve had on an airplane. Once you figure out kind of where to put it on your face and then, and then how you can comfortably sleep with it.
1 (38m 2s):
Wonderful. I was gonna say too, I love your packaging design. I feel like it’s really sleek, clean and then you open it up and you have the QR code and all of the instructions. I love that it comes with a bag. I actually, my go-to now is throw in already my face mask and earplugs already into the bag. So I don’t even have to think about searching for those items and I just pull it all out at once. And correct me if I’m wrong, but you can take the outer layer of the pillow off and wash it, correct?
4 (38m 32s):
Yep, absolutely. So, and that was the big thing when we started to, on this thing, I mean, you guys know planes are disgusting, like it, especially when turnaround times are fast, like on holidays and all that, like you see people on there cleaning, but there’s not really a lot of that. And then if you’re like me, you drop it on the floor, you might drop it on the bathroom floor, something like that in the airport, you know? So yeah, I wanted everything to be washable, you know, shrink proof, stuff like that. So we used a, a cotton blend, it’s like a 95% cotton spandex, which is really nice and washable, but then also is very cool or temperature neutral I should say. Some of the other pillows on the market use like a, a polar fleece material and that just gets super hot.
4 (39m 13s):
It’s nice if it’s cold, but it just gets hot really quick. So a natural fiber like this, you know, hypoallergenic, like just all the, all the things that make it comfortable for extended hours of use, we try to think of when doing this. So yeah, washable is a big thing.
2 (39m 29s):
And we keep talking about the uniqueness of the design, of course you’re talking about the the outer casing of it, being able to wash, hypoallergenic, et cetera. I’m curious at what point you thought to yourself, right, this is my final design and what type of testing you did on it, like who tested it out other than you and just everything like that for you to be like, this is prime time right now,
4 (39m 53s):
Man, it was a long road honestly. And if you look at, and, and I do have some content I think on Instagram about the, the various different prototypes, but I wasn’t even taking good pictures or videos early on. I I, this is no joke, probably the 200th iteration of the pillow design that over the course of several years of working on it and, and from when I started in 2017, kind of designing this thing to when it finally was final, which would’ve been probably 2019, almost 2020. I mean I quit probably three times in there. I was like, this is stupid, it’s not possible, you know? And, and then I also had a few designs that I was like, man, this is awesome. But the testing ground was actually flying.
4 (40m 34s):
So, you know, I fly a lot, I travel a lot to see friends and you know, being from South Dakota, I’d be going home to see them from Phoenix a lot. But I would try it myself. First of all, I, and also a funny thing about the pillow experience is when you get it, if you order one and you get it and you’re sitting at your house and you try it on and you’re like sitting on your plush overstuffed couch and you’re just kind of kicked back and you try it on, you’re like, this is okay, you know? Well, yeah, anything’s okay compared to like a big luxurious couch. If we could all sit on a couch on the airplane, we’d be, you know, real happy we would need the neck pillow. But so what I did is I was like, okay, I need to mimic the airplane seat and we actually have airplane seats now that we use for testing, but at the time I didn’t.
4 (41m 14s):
So I would sit on the floor on my tile floor and lean my back up against my drywall wall, you know, a perfect right angle, like the least comfortable spot I could think of and, and test it out there, you know, and if I couldn’t get comfortable there, I’m like, that doesn’t work. And it actually, that ended up being a pretty clear testing ground to see whether something would work or not. But beyond that, after me, you know, it’s easy to get one person to like something, but you’re right, you, we had to test with other people. So it was friends and family. I would say, Hey, you’re going on a trip, take this with you, see what you think. And and 99% of the time it was meh, you know, and it, it was okay, you know, that’s when I knew we needed to change something. But one of my good friends actually travels for work internationally a lot.
4 (41m 56s):
You know, he is in, in Europe probably five or six times a year. So he is always on these really long flights and you know, being a business traveler, sometimes you get an upgrade but you can never depend on it. So he was actually really, really pivotal in the, the finalization of the design too, taking it with him and as a proclaimed cannot sleep on the plane without Xanax and red wine guy, you know, he was like, I actually slept for an hour straight the first time. He is like, and don’t take that lightly. He is like, I don’t sleep on airplanes. So, so that was a pretty good kind of clear cut that I think we’ve found something that works. And then now honestly we’re already like, okay, next batch maybe we tweak a couple things here and there and I think it’s a never ending improvement game.
4 (42m 38s):
2 (42m 39s):
Kind of took the question outta my mouth. I was gonna say, is there anything in the pipe for r and d? And you already kind of said it, so I may just see how it can be improved upon. ’cause as it stands now, what we just tried out and have been using has been very, very comfortable and like you said, a complete game changer just ’cause of the traditional non-support you get of your head. This one has it and yeah, I love it.
4 (43m 1s):
Awesome. Yeah, definitely. Nope, I, our plan is to just keep going on it and I mean, I think there’s a lot of opportunity to change it up and make it better and, and airplane seats are not gonna get more comfortable unless we start paying two or three times as much for, for plane seats. But I think the way the world’s going, you know, everybody’s trying to save money. So that was my big thing is I’m like, go every time I fly now you gotta pay extra just to get a window seat most of the time. I mean, you can get a middle seat and row 28 for free, but if you want a good seat somewhere towards the front of the plane, you know, it’s 20 bucks each way and all this stuff. So to me that’s where it kind of becomes a no brainer. Yeah, it’s a, a more expensive travel pillow maybe than you’re used to, but you also don’t have to pay for a seat upgrade every time you fly.
4 (43m 44s):
You don’t have to think, God, should I spend 250 bucks just to go into comfort Plus just so I have a little bit more room. You know, I mean it’s, it’s just not a fun experience and I’m like, I think the only solution is to just sleep through it. So that’s my, oh yes,
0 (43m 59s):
That’s the best way to fly. You fall asleep, you wake up and you’re there. Oh, absolutely. And then ideally for me, I don’t wake up with Brittany taking pictures of me sleeping with my mouth open and this pillow definitely saves me,
1 (44m 15s):
And I think I have it down, like I now have your travel pillow, I have my eye mask, my ear plugs with me as well, and I’m maturity like five foot, so I have like one of those foot hammocks as well. So I have like a whole setup that I like just grab and put in my ear on bag that is like perfect for comfort, especially if you’re in economy. I would love to fly business class of course, or first class, but we’re not doing that quite yet, hopefully soon. Right. But I think we’ve perfected it in the meantime and part of it thanks to you.
4 (44m 47s):
Oh, I appreciate that and I, I’m glad to hear that. I mean, honestly, yeah, I would love to sell a million of these things and make a bunch of money, but I’m like, it’s funny when you get a solution or like I was in construction and, you know, buying the right tool makes all the difference in the world, right? So it’s like just knowing when you get on the airplane that you’re like, okay, I’m covered. Right? You’ve got your eye mass, you’ve got your earplugs, you’ve got your foot hammock, and you’ve got the pillow like, okay, hopefully I can zone out and not listen to the announcements and just crash until we get there. Right,
1 (45m 15s):
0 (45m 16s):
You, you mentioned the price point, which is around $70. I don’t think that’s too high. I mean a good quality travel Pillow of another type could probably come in around 40, so it’s a little bit higher, but it’s definitely worth it for the reasons you could wash it. It’s, it’s got like a really thick foam in it too, so it’s not going to go flimsy on you or the beads won’t kind of separate and move away. And I know it’s on sale right now for I think about 10 bucks off. So good time to buy
4 (45m 45s):
Buy. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. We’re running a fall sale. We’re actually calling it the fall, a sleep sale, but 10 bucks off and then if you buy two or more, it’s another five bucks off each one. But I agree, we struggled a little bit with the price in terms of, hey, where should we put it? And, and there are pillows that are quite a bit more expensive than ours. There’s pillows that are way cheaper. But yeah, I think when you put your, your value to the test with it, we, we hope you guys find the value in it. And then, you know, we have a 90 day gar guarantee on every pillow we sell too. So it’s, we’re actually doing something a little unique with it. So, you know, the hard part about e-commerce is shipping, right? So we’ll pay for the shipping when you buy it, when you return it, we’ll pay for the shipping only if you return it between 80 and 90 days.
4 (46m 28s):
Because we don’t want people to just get it and be like, I don’t like this. I’m sending it back. We want you to try it, like take it on your next trip. So if you return it after 80 days and before 90 days or initiate the return process, we’ll pay for your return shipping. But if it’s before that, like you’re gonna pay for the return shipping. So maybe it sounds a little, you know, crappy or something that people are like, well why would you do that? But I’m like, really? I just want you to take it for a try and if you do hate it, good, send it back. But I don’t think you will. So that’s why we did it that way.
0 (46m 55s):
I love that approach. Like, I mean, it shows you really, really believe in it and after using it, we do too. So I think that’s a great approach.
2 (47m 4s):
Well, beyond the belief too, and even as we’re talking price point, again, such a good value of that $5 from every purchase goes to the camp for kids to help them travel, have those experiences. And I think something like that is priceless. So beyond the amazing design and comfort, there’s also good that goes with it. And even how you just described that kind of return policy and free shipping to start with coming to you, I think it’s a great business model and things that in a day when you were just talking about an economy and things shrinking and everybody getting cheap and this and that and the other, you can see that you want your product to succeed and have people want to, to try and appreciate a good business aspect.
2 (47m 48s):
And I love that.
4 (47m 49s):
Absolutely. No, I appreciate you saying that. And that is the goal. I mean, you, if anybody has started a business before and you know, I think when you’re younger, I mean to totally honest, when we were younger, I mean I think we, you know, I dunno if you remember the show Entourage, but you know, I was about the same age as those guys at that time, you know, and I wanted to just be a baller and driving a roll Royce and all this stuff. I’m like, how do we get money? I’ll do anything. You know? And so we started a teeth whitening business. We started, I just, all these silly things that were like, such like smash and grab, hey, let’s just try to get money. And it never worked because there’s no sincerity there. And I felt it and I knew at the entire time, and that is what happened with this company is I was like, I wanna make something that, you know, I’m creative and you know, the universe blessed me with hands that can make things.
4 (48m 32s):
And so I was like, I wanna make something that I think is worth putting out into the world. And, and that is how this ended up where we are. So have you ever
0 (48m 40s):
Had anyone see you at the airport or on a trip and ask about the pillow?
4 (48m 46s):
I have actually. So one time I, I booked first class. There was a last minute upgrade that was like 75 bucks or something on a like an hour flight, you know, not even working it on. But, so I was up in first class sitting next to this guy and I look over and he is probably 70 years old, but very like nicely manicured old man, you know? And he’s got like this big Rolex on and like the guy who should be in first class, right? So, and so I, he’s kind of talking a little bit and I don’t really like to talk on the airplane, I just kind of wanna fall asleep and get there, you know. But I’m like, well hey, maybe I can learn something from this guy, right? So I pull out the pillow and he is like, well what do you got there young man? You know? And I start talking to him about it and by the end of it, I mean his name is Mike, he’s like, man, I love that thing.
4 (49m 29s):
That is, that is one of the coolest idea. He is, he’s, and so he starts telling me, he is like, I buy and sell companies all day long. He’s like, when you get to whatever number of sales, you gimme a call. You know? So that was a, that was a pretty cool experience. But beyond that, we actually do, and my wife is great about it, but she’s almost like the, Hey, have you guys seen this new pillow? You know, like, not our company kind of on the airplane.
1 (49m 53s):
4 (49m 54s):
But she actually ends up talking to people about it. And anyway, there has been a lot of interest people like now that’s an interesting thing, you know? So yeah, it’s getting some organic buzz for sure.
1 (50m 3s):
I was gonna say, you know, until you’re in the airport, maybe you should just like go around the, the Phoenix airport, like demoing it out. Anyone need a last minute pillow? Like make you round, sell a few. There
4 (50m 15s):
We’re, we’re flying to Denver for Thanksgiving this year on Southwest, you know, and so they’ve got the two bags spy free thing. So I thought about just loading one of the bags up with one and just start like, you know, trying to haw them the baggage claim area or something. But oh
1 (50m 28s):
My gosh, I can’t hurt. But I have a kind of fun question for you. One thing that I kind of think about is like travel products that we, we have, and there’s been like a few that we’ve stuck with Jamal and I have traveled for years with like a soft shell travel cooler. And one time I did like a post on like how many places it’s been and it, like this travel cooler has been to like, I don’t know, 15 different states. It’s been to Mexico, the Virgin Islands. It’s kind of traveled everywhere with us. But where has been your favorite place that you’ve traveled to with, with your pillow?
4 (51m 1s):
Yeah, so I think my, my favorite trip we took with the pillow was actually more centered around, I mean, I shouldn’t say that it was more centered around the pillow maybe, but we, when we finally got our final prototypes of this thing, I think it was in 2022, we flew from Phoenix to New York City and my wife’s family is out there. We were going for a wedding and that’s a, a pretty long flight by American standards, right? It’s five to six hour flight, one of the longer ones you can do in the contiguous United States. So we both sat down and you know, we kind of put our AirPods on and, and just sat there and got comfortable and no joke. I mean, both of us put the pillow on and we both woke up when the wheels hit the ground in New York City at JFK.
4 (51m 46s):
And I was like, for, at first I was like, where did, where are we? Like, did we early? Because you know, I, even with the pillow, I still only usually sleep an hour or maybe two hours at most. Then you kind of need to re you know, adjust or get up or move around or something like that. But, and she, she kind of did the same thing. I was like, did you sleep the whole time? She’s like, yeah. And I was like, wow, you know, so that was really cool for us. But I think the, the bigger thing about it was it was a red eye flight, you know, which is easier to sleep on anyway, but still sitting for six hours stinks no matter what you’re doing. But we had to hit the ground running that day. She was pregnant at the time and so we got to New York at you know, 7:00 AM or whatever it was and we knew it was gonna be a long day because of the red eye, but it ended up being awesome because we got such a good nap in on the way there that I think we walked, she has the notes somewhere.
4 (52m 36s):
I think we walked like 19 miles that day. She’s pregnant. My gosh, I’d never seen like, you know, even when we went to New York City and high school for the band thing, we didn’t get to do very much. So this is the only other time I’d been there and I mean we saw the entire city and it was like this like ultimate testimonial for the product that I feel like, but it was so much fun because I was like cool, you know, it worked and the trip was incredible and she used to spend a lot of time there and showed me all the, the greatest parts of the city and we just had a blast.
1 (53m 4s):
So, well that gives me a lot of hope. I like to land when we fly international. I love to land at night so that I just go straight to sleep, wake up in the morning and then I’m kind of like on schedule. But we’re actually going to Iceland in July. Oh. And our flight lands at 9:30 AM and you know, we have this 10 hour flight beforehand, so we kind of leave San Diego midday, but I think this will be really great to like try to sleep those last few hours of the flight land in Iceland and then we’re just gonna be go, go, go after that.
4 (53m 35s):
Yeah, absolutely. Well and that’s kind of back to the point of travel becoming so expensive. It’s like if you don’t start maximizing the days that you actually get to go, then you’re back at, you know, $400 a night for a hotel which you know, used to be like the Waldorf Astoria and now that’s just where you go, you know? So it’s like if you can maximize and use that whole first day, you can usually check your luggage in at the hotel before you can actually check in, which is what we did in New York. Went straight to the hotel, dropped our bags, and then just went and saw the city. And yeah, if you can maximize the rest you get on the way there too, that’s huge.
2 (54m 11s):
Might need to do some red eye and rally kind of tagging on that and marketing technique ’cause that may be very good for it. Red Eye and Rally.
4 (54m 21s):
That’s awesome. I like it. I’m gonna write that down.
2 (54m 23s):
Yeah, there you go. I think on that note, you know we’ve hyped up the pillow and rightfully so, but why don’t you tell our listeners again where they can find your pillow, what website you are at, and of course on Amazon and the name again. Yeah,
4 (54m 39s):
You can find us on Instagram at Takon Life. You can find us on the internet at www dot Takon life.com. You can certainly find us on Amazon if you search for Takon, it’s T-A-K-O-N. We should be the only pillow with that name on there. Let us know if there’s other ones. ’cause they shouldn’t be the internet, but yeah, that’s how you find us. We
0 (54m 58s):
Also linked it in our best gifts for Travelers this year. So it’s on our Amazon shop and we’ve been hyping it up as like the gift of the year. If there’s a traveler in your life, especially if they don’t have a pillow, this is it.
4 (55m 12s):
Oh, very cool. I appreciate that.
2 (55m 14s):
Like I said, it’s the red eye rally.
4 (55m 17s):
Rarely. Yeah, it sounds better than the one I was using, which was Xanax and Rally, but I think you we’ll stick with that.
0 (55m 25s):
This ones more all ages friendly. Yeah, exactly. Brett, we really appreciate you for coming on. This conversation was awesome. I hope that it inspires some people to go check out the pillow support, get better sleep on planes and Red Eye rally.
4 (55m 42s):
Awesome. Red Eye and Rally. I really appreciate it you guys and happy travels, happy holidays and hope to see you soon.
1 (55m 49s):
4 (55m 50s):
All right, thank you.
2 (55m 51s):
Take care Brett.
1 (55m 52s):
0 (55m 53s):
All right, Scotties, we hope you enjoyed our interview with Brett and we hope we inspired you to try out the Takon pillow for yourself. Remember, you get a $5 off promo code if you go to the website, Takon life.com and use our promo code TRAVELSQUADFIVE all spelled out. So go ahead and do that and then of course, keep the adventures going with us by following us on Instagram TikTok YouTube, and send us in your questions of the week.
2 (56m 18s):
If you found the information this episode to be useful or if you thought we were just plain funny, please be sure to share it with a friend that would enjoy it too. And as always, do subscribe, rate and review our podcast and tune in every travel Tuesday for new episodes.
1 (56m 32s):
Stay tuned for next week’s episode. We have some more amazing adventures and tips in store for you.