Renee Hannes of ⁠Dream Plan Experience⁠ explains what slow travel really means and how you can travel slow even on quick trips! In this episode we romanticize slow travel in Paris and give recommendations for the perfect slow travel days in the city of light.

What is slow travel?

Slow travel is a style of travel where you explore destinations at a more leisurely and mindful pace. Maybe you have fewer stops on your itinerary or no itinerary at all and your spend more time admiring the architecture, talking to locals, and getting delightfully lost in a new place.

If you loved this episode, check out some of our other travel guest interviews!

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What is Slow Travel – Episode Transcript

0:33

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0:40

Hello.

Hello, Renee.

0:41

Thank you for coming on to the Travel Squad Podcast.

Thanks for having me, it’s good to be here.

0:46

I know we’ve been talking about this interview for several months and it’s a long time coming now,

so we’re really excited to have you.

0:52

You are a listener of the show, so, you know, for all of our guests, we like to start our interviews

by going way, way back.

0:59

So for you, since we’re going to be talking about slow travel today, we want to hear what was one of

your first slow travel experiences that made you fall in love with this style of travel.

1:09

Yeah, sure.

So I have been traveling to Europe for over 35 years and I think I’ve been practicing slow travel

1:18

before the term actually was invented and it wasn’t until it’s really just become a trend that I’ve

had this, you know, aha moment of hey, that’s the way I like to travels.

1:29

I’ve really always been 1 who’ve and I think it’s kind of just maybe my independence streak.

I want to avoid those kind of touristy places.

1:37

I kind of want to be seen as a local, especially when I’m in Europe.

You don’t just to be able to, you know, go to places that the, the locals kind of go to and you

1:48

know, not really having an itinerary, but just kind of walk and explore.

And that’s just how I’ve always really travelled.

1:55

So once I’ve known about it and once I have travelled more and more to Europe, I’ve, you know,

developed it and honed it.

2:05

And so it’s not like I immediately kind of fell into traveling like a slow traveler, but it’s been

something that I’ve been practicing and still continue to practice every trip I go on.

2:16

You know, we’re not necessarily slow travelers, you know, it depends on really the location of

course, but we all work full time jobs.

2:24

So when we’re able to take the time off from work and we’re very fortunate that we can take a good

amount of time off throughout the year, a lot of times we really have to be rushed, right, and see

2:34

if we’re going somewhere, see it all really fast or a lot of the main highlights.

So in your definition, what would you say is slow travel and why do you encourage more people to

2:45

travel that way?

Yeah.

2:46

So I think slow travel is definitely about the pace.

You know, it is a slower pace, but I think it’s much more than that.

2:54

And I really kind of see it as an extension of the slow living movement that’s happening and that’s,

you know, really just kind of being mindful about what you enjoy about your life and kind of finding

3:06

that joy in those kind of simple everyday moments.

So when you translate that to slow travel, to me, it’s about traveling with purpose, you know,

3:15

choosing quality over quantity, being attentional about the way that you spend your time.

So even if you are on a trip for a weekend, a couple of days in a destination, you can still

3:29

practice slow travel.

I really feel it’s about, you know, knowing yourself and what you really enjoy and honing in on

3:37

that.

And so prioritize what your interests are and what your passions are.

3:43

And really that’s where you want to kind of focus your time in that destination that you’re

traveling to.

3:49

But of course, it is about the pace, right?

It’s about lingering and never kind of rushing anything.

3:55

And so whether that’s sitting in a cafe, you know, walking down a street or visiting a museum, you

know, I’ll say it’s a slow footed pace.

4:05

You know, you’re just going a little bit more slowly.

And it’s not necessarily the length of time that you’re in a destination.

4:13

I think that that is one of the myths that needs to be busted, that people can of course have full

time jobs and just be travelling, you know, a couple of times a year, a couple of weeks a year, and

4:25

you still can have that slow travel experience.

And it’s not necessarily about living that nomadic lifestyle where you’re living in a destination

4:34

for a length of time.

You can still kind of practice those characteristics of slow travel on your week trip to Europe.

4:42

Well, thank you for clarifying that because you do put it into good perspective.

You can.

4:47

And even slow travel in a busy city like New York City.

It’s just about taking it a little bit slower, noticing more as you’re walking around, right?

4:55

Yeah, absolutely.

I think the trends that are happening in travel right now are a little bit of kind of blending

5:01

things together.

People are really talking about hidden gems and finding places that are under the radar that aren’t

5:08

necessarily where all the tourists are going.

And they view that as as slow travel.

5:12

And of course, an element of that is slow travel, but you can practice to slow travel in the busiest

cities like New York or in Europe, all the capital cities.

5:22

It’s it because it’s a mindset, It’s how you approach your day.

And you can do it from a tourist perspective or you can be the tourist in your own city, you know,

5:32

practicing slow travel.

I, I view it as a much kind of broader definition because I really feel it is, it’s a mindset and

5:39

there’s elements of that slow travel that you can put into, to practice.

A random question, I know you’re saying it’s a mindset and I don’t disagree with you, but I know you

5:49

are a European expert and we’re going to talk more specifically about Paris here coming up.

But I just want to preface it with that.

5:57

Then say you’re going to Paris and this is somebody who’s going the first time in their life,

probably not going to be there more than three days and this is again, maybe the only time they’ll

6:08

ever go.

How do you tell somebody who wants to really see it all to like slow down and this is honestly the

6:15

best way to experience a city is in the slow mindset versus seeing all of the tourist attractions

going to the main things.

6:21

How do you get in that mindset?

Yeah, I think it’s about balance, right, Finding the healthy, healthy balance.

6:26

So if you’ve never practiced slow travel and you want to start to introduce it, it’s going to be

baby steps, right?

6:32

So you’re going to think about what what makes sense for you.

But to your immediate question about your first time traveler, you’re going to Paris and obviously

6:43

there are some big, big landmarks that you want to see and experience.

I would say experience them because you want to experience them.

6:51

So if you really love museums, then you’re going to love the Louvre.

If you’re not into going to museums, then you’re going to leave probably feeling very underwhelmed

7:03

and stressed, and it’s not going to be a great use of your time.

So how you could offset that is it’s not like you don’t want to go to the Louvre.

7:11

You could go to the Louvre and see its exterior.

There’s nothing wrong with, you know, going there and admiring the architecture that’s been there

7:20

for centuries and seeing, you know, it against the modern glass pyramids, that kind of typical

picture that everyone has seen in their mind about Paris.

7:30

And so you can explore that on the exterior here if you don’t love museums and still be able to say

have seen the Louvre, I’ve seen the surroundings, I’ve seen people who have been there and you know,

7:42

they’re the coming and going of the Parisians walking through that big square.

It’s also very close to Jardin de Tuleri.

7:50

So you know, you would, you would go over there and walk.

So I think it’s, it’s not like you’re saying no to the landmarks, the important landmarks of every

7:59

city.

It just might be that you offset that with if you have 3 days, maybe you’re only going to three

8:05

things and the rest of the time is, you know, just walking the streets, walking along the sun, or,

you know, visiting a neighborhood and just kind of walking and seeing what you can kind of explore

8:16

and find on your own.

That really resonates with me because I’m not a museum person, but when you hear about Paris,

8:21

everyone either says you have to go to the Louvre or they’ll ask you, did you go to the Louvre?

But I’ve heard a lot of feedback from people who say, and what is the painting there?

8:31

That’s the famous one.

Mona Lisa.

8:33

The Mona Lisa, almost everyone says it’s so small, it’s so underwhelming.

You think it’s underwhelming, and it actually is because, you know, Brittany and I have been to

8:44

Paris.

But I will say this, you know, they keep you about 10 feet back.

8:49

They have a brass rail.

It’s behind glass.

8:51

But then there are, like, five other Michelangelo’s in the same room that I think are substantially

better that nobody’s, like, looking at.

8:59

But, you know, to your point, Kim, like, yeah, you don’t necessarily like museums if that’s not

going to be your thing.

9:03

I resonate with what you’re saying to, like, Renee, go see the site, Walk, stroll.

You don’t have to do those things.

9:09

But some of those iconic things, I guess is what people say, like, all you need to do.

But are you doing it because you feel forced?

9:15

So it’s a lot of putting it into perspective of what you mentioned and alluded to earlier, Renee, of

what you want to do and get out of it.

9:22

Yeah.

And, and going back to the mindset part of slow travel and that mindset is not only knowing

9:29

yourself, but being unapologetically true to yourself.

And so just going back to that example, if you know that you don’t like museums, you should be OK

9:39

with saying I don’t want to spend my time there.

Yeah, we just booked an Egypt trip, Jamal and Britt added On this museum excursion.

9:46

And I said, you know what?

I’m not a museum person.

9:48

I’m not going to do this one.

And that’s, that’s amazing.

9:51

So that to me is that’s the mindset of a slow traveller to be able to say, you know what?

I know that there’s this fear of missing out.

9:59

I know that there’s this social media pressure or there’s, you know, pressure by your friend,

friends or your family, your colleagues to whomever who’s who’s gone there who says you have to do

10:08

these things.

And, and that’s great and they have that opinion.

10:12

But if you really know yourself and know what you truly love to do, that’s the quality over

quantity.

10:17

You think about where do I want to spend the most amount of my time and do that because those will

be the memories that you have.

10:25

If you experience things that you think are kind of underwhelming, then I think that ruins the

overall experience that you have about city.

10:33

And I feel like, you know, when you mentioned Paris, there’s this real divide with people.

People either love the city or they hate the city.

10:42

And to me, I feel like it’s because those who hate the city, it’s because they went and did all the

things that you were expected to go and do in Paris.

10:52

And the real essence of Paris is not doing any of those things.

It’s doing really nothing.

10:57

It’s really just strolling around the city and being able to, you know, just soak it all in, right,

To go to a cafe.

11:04

It’s just about experiencing life.

And again, that kind of goes back to that slow traveler mindset.

11:10

It is a great city for slow travelers.

And I think of Paris.

11:14

I think of just a picnic with a baguette and cheese underneath the Eiffel Tower.

With a bottle of wine.

11:20

Oh yes.

You know, and I was even going to say that earlier, you know, when we were talking about like my

11:26

question about somebody, only a few days in Paris, only going to be there once, what to do?

And then you went straight to the Louvre.

11:32

I was even thinking, you know what, a lot of people want to go into the Eiffel Tower, but half the

fun of it is actually just being on the promenade.

11:40

You can go into any store, buy some bread, cheese and wine in that exact moment and just sit and do

that versus standing in line for two hours just to get in the elevator to go up the Eiffel Tower.

11:51

You’ll spend maybe 30 minutes.

Or of course, if you want to take time to enjoy, it’s been longer, but that picnic is more so just

11:59

that slow travel mindset versus to let me go to the top and get the view from the top.

Yeah, and there’s other parts of the city that you can see the Eiffel Tower from.

12:07

So for those who haven’t been, there’s there’s many areas.

Walking along the right Bank of the sun, you can see the Eiffel Tower.

12:15

There’s some great streets in the 7th Rondeys Mall, which is where the Eiffel Tower is that you can

see, you know, you turn the corner and there it is amongst all the buildings and it’s such a

12:26

phenomenal view.

The example of, you know, would you go to the Eiffel Tower?

12:30

To me it’s a choice with do you go up?

Just like Jamal said, take the time, go up and you see the view.

12:36

The view that you’re not getting though is of the Eiffel Tower.

And so there are many places in the city that you can go up an elevated view and see the city and

12:46

see the Eiffel Tower.

And so that might be a a better kind of experience or is it just kind of going near and around and

12:55

seeing the Eiffel Tower as you’re also then kind of soaking in the in the city?

I have to imagine slow travel in this way is really good for stress relief and adrenal fatigue and

13:06

all of those things because we always say we need a vacation from our vacation and we are the type

of people on a lot of trips.

13:13

Not, not everyone anymore, but we have a schedule, we have a timeline.

We have 30 minutes at this spot and then 30 minute drive and it’s exhausting a little bit and if a

13:22

wrench comes into your plans, it can really stress you out.

Can you talk about that?

13:26

How it is actually so good for stress relief or do you agree?

Absolutely agree.

13:31

So I think that, you know, slow travel is not meant to be stressful and it’s meant to be extremely

flexible.

13:38

So if you, you know, have intentions on going to see something and it happens to be closed or, you

know, you don’t get tickets or something like that, It’s it’s having that kind of mindset of, oh,

13:49

well, you know, it, it wasn’t meant to be.

I’m not going to, I’m not going to see it on this trip.

13:54

Maybe I’ll return again, but what else can I explore and what else can I do?

So it really is that kind of because you’re not having a jam packed itinerary, it’s not rushed,

14:04

you’re doing what you love.

It’s more of putting yourself first, It’s kind of self-care travel if you, if you want to think

14:11

about it from that perspective.

And it’s also memories that you’re going to probably remember.

14:16

So if you think about that kind of hurried tourist who goes from landmark to landmark to landmark,

will you come back and all those kind of places just kind of a blur.

14:28

Whereas if you decide to, OK, I’m only going to stay maybe and do 2 destinations in my week long

trip or two week trip and I’m really going to, you know, spend my time there and it is going to be

14:41

things that I love to do.

Then you are having a chance to kind of unwind, reflect, you know, throughout your day.

14:49

Maybe you’re sitting in a park and you know, maybe you’re journaling or you know, you’re just really

kind of living in the moment and you’re being present and just those kind of things are stress

15:00

relievers.

And it it helps from that kind of mental health perspective, you are coming back feeling refreshed

15:07

and you have those kind of memories that you might not have gotten otherwise.

So I’m curious, of course, you just mentioned that slow travel should not be stressful and of course

15:17

you should be flexible.

So when you’re actually going somewhere, of course, do you create your own itinerary of what you

15:25

want to do, but just keep it to a bare minimum?

Or do you land in a place place with a general idea and just kind of go with the flow?

15:33

You’re asking me personally, not giving advice.

OK, well, both.

15:38

Well, yes, both, but that was, you’re right, it was a personal question.

Yeah, I would say that when I was just a traveler, I had 0 schedule.

15:48

Oh, I, I feel those were probably the good old days where I would just show up at a destination, not

do any research.

15:56

I’d walk a little bit.

I would stop at the, you know, my first kind of restaurant and I’d ask my server and I’d say, hey,

16:03

you have a day off tomorrow.

Where are you going?

16:05

Where are you eating in the city?

So you’re having a lot more conversations with locals too.

16:09

Yes, but and so I would let them plan my trip and I would literally go day by day from, you know,

what I would pick up from locals or sitting at a park bench and I would turn to the person who’s

16:21

sitting with me and I would say, you know, what are you doing afterwards?

What did you do this morning?

16:25

Where do you, where would you recommend that I go?

So that was how I used to travel and that’s that element of slow, slow travel, right?

16:32

Just really connecting with the community, talking to locals, getting that authentic kind of travel

experience.

16:38

Now that travel is my full time business, it’s a little bit different because I need to visit a

destination and go to everything and experience everything because I need to be able to write about

16:51

it.

And it has its advantages and also its disadvantages.

16:55

But the advantages would be it’s taking me to places that I probably wouldn’t normally have visited

on my own.

17:00

They wouldn’t have been on my radar.

But I’m also then putting it into kind of perspective of a normal traveler does probably want to go

17:07

and see those landmarks, right?

So I do want to have that experience and be able to create itineraries for people and try and infuse

17:15

slow travel in little pieces in their day.

And so how I get around that is when I revisit destinations over and over again.

17:23

I’m not a traveler.

If you ask me how many countries I’ve been to, it’s not very many, but I’ve been to Paris 11 times.

17:32

I’ve been to Italy three times, I’ve been to Germany 6 * 7 times.

So I revisit countries and travel more deeply.

17:41

And that’s kind of an element of, of slow travel, but it allows me to be able to see and experience

the full destination so that I can be able to provide that well-rounded advice about is it worth

17:55

your time?

Because I have been able to do that.

17:57

I think that another part for me is that I love photography.

And so, so if people do love photography and they love to, you know, take pictures or whatever, a

18:07

good way to be able to plan your itinerary is maybe think about, I want to go to two landmarks in a

day and one is in one part of the city and the other is in the other side of the city.

18:17

And my whole goal that day is to go from A to B, but I’ve got the full day.

And so, you know, you go and visit that landmark that you you want to go and see, and then the

18:28

journey is, you know, going from that landmark to the next landmark and walking slowly with your

camera.

18:35

And you kind of try and see the city through your lens of your camera, which means you have to slow

down.

18:40

You have to look at details.

You have to peek around a corner when a door opens, you kind of like look in the corridor and see,

18:47

you know, is that a great shot or something like that?

So there’s ways I think of being able to still incorporate that slow travel when my pace is to still

18:59

try and go and see everything, to be able to write about it.

I’m actually so glad Brittany’s not on this episode because everything you’re describing, she needs

19:08

to hear this one actually once once it goes live because she walks fast, she plans a booked up

itinerary.

19:15

Me and Jamal have slowly been encouraging and transitioning to a little bit more slow travel, kind

of dipping our toes there, and Brittany’s kind of getting there too.

19:24

But wow, this this is totally the opposite.

You know, I don’t disagree with you, Kim, but it’s one of those things, different travel styles,

19:31

right?

A lot of people like to see everything too.

19:34

But you’re right, Brittany’s getting there.

But it’s kind of that double edged sword that you just even mentioned yourself, Renee.

19:39

Now that you’re actually making this your business, you need to actually put other stuff of what

most tourists want to see.

19:46

And I also feel like that’s with us when we go places where every place that we go, we have a

podcast episode, people want to hear about this, that and the other because that’s probably where

19:54

they’re going to go.

So I think a lot of it is really finding that fine balance of taking it slow experience in a city as

20:02

a local if you can, but also seeing what you want to see.

So as we get older and travel more, it’s that fine balance that I think we’re all fine tuning.

20:11

I feel like this leans into solo travel a bit.

Renee, would you say slow travel and solo travel are like always together or can couples do this,

20:19

groups do this?

Think it depends on because it is just as Jamal had mentioned, it is a style.

20:26

And so there are many different styles to travel.

And so you, you need to find the one that resonates with you.

20:33

This is one that resonates with me, but I would never pass judgement on anybody else who didn’t like

this style, right?

20:40

To me, it’s about following what makes you happy, right?

It’s going back to those principles of what fills your cup.

20:45

Where do you find the joy?

And so this is a style that you know, you find joy in then for sure, sure adapt it.

20:52

I am, so I do travel with my husband and he is a slower paced traveler.

And then I’m a solo traveler for probably 90% of it because I do go for business and I, I don’t

21:06

often travel with, with someone else.

And so I think it is, if you are a solo person and this is something that you want to do, it’s, it’s

21:14

great.

If you’re traveling with other people who don’t believe that this is the style that matches them,

21:20

then they’re to be a little bit of friction there, right?

So it might be a good way to introduce it because you could say, hey, the morning is yours, the

21:27

afternoon is mine.

So you can blend the two styles together.

21:32

You get a balance.

I hosted a slow travel retreat in Tuscany in September, the great slow travel destination to go to.

21:42

And so it was introducing 14 people to that style that had not really done it before.

And many of them had used that retreat as a launching off point where they then had holidays planned

21:57

afterwards.

And they remarked afterwards when they got home finally, and they had said, you know what, I see the

22:04

difference in slow travel.

I loved that week in Tuscany because you forced us to slow down.

22:09

You didn’t put too much on our itinerary.

And then when I went to this destination with my friends or with my my partner, we would go, go, go,

22:18

go, go.

And I didn’t actually get time to experience it the same way that I experienced Tuscany with your

22:26

itinerary.

Absolutely.

22:27

And Renee, the business dream plan experience, is this what people can find when they go to the

website, other slow travel retreats that they can join?

22:36

Yeah.

So, so I had the one that I offered in Tuscany in September and I don’t have another one planned.

22:43

I would probably do the same one in Tuscany because I developed up some really good community

contacts and and it’s a great itinerary.

22:50

And so I do want to do it again.

It’s just trying to find the time, yeah.

22:55

Well, when you do it, I’m very interested because I did Florence when I went to Italy, but I didn’t

get to do a lot of like the castles and wine and I would love to do.

23:05

I think slow travel is perfect for that destination.

Yeah, absolutely.

23:09

Well, I’ll connect with you.

Please do.

23:13

Thank you.

I kind of want to shift the conversation a little bit more towards Paris now.

23:19

I mean, I know we talked about it a little bit earlier, but I really want to focus on Paris because

a lot of our listeners and squaddies, they say to us all the time, like why don’t we have a Paris

23:28

episode?

But again, only Brittany and I have been there in 2015, so really long time.

23:34

And of course, we don’t feel like we would be able to give good content on it, which we know you

can.

23:39

So kind of keeping with the theme of slow travel and with the analogy Kim mentioned earlier about,

oh, New York being a bustling city, but even you could take it slow, How does slow travel in Paris

23:50

differ from the typical tourist experience?

I know you said if there’s point A point B walk between experience it that way, but give us another

23:59

great example of the slow travel experience in Paris and how it differ than the normal tourist.

Yeah, so I would say that Paris is a great city to practice slow travel in because the Parisians

24:11

have perfected the art of slow travel or slow living.

A really good tip, you had mentioned that Brittany is, you know, a fast Walker and and you know,

24:22

gems your itinerary a Tiffany would have in something that I’ve practiced because I am a fast Walker

is walk behind a Parisian and it forces you to not pass them on the sidewalk and to follow their

24:35

pace.

And when you watch a Parisian walk, they take their time.

24:40

They’ll pause, look in a store window, they’ll stop by a bookshop like they’ll, they’ll meet someone

on the street.

24:46

They’ll sit down at a bench in a square.

It’s really a great way to kind of, you know, practice that slow footed walking.

24:54

But they have a term in French which is called a flanner.

And a flanner means that you’re a wanderer, that you have no real purpose to go anywhere, but you

25:04

observe what is around you.

And This is why I say Paris is a great city to slow travel in, because Parisians have perfected that

25:14

art of being a flanner.

They really do.

25:17

They walk slowly, they enjoy going in, visiting a park, they walk into a little shop.

They’re great lingerers, right, Whether it’s in a cafe or over a meal.

25:26

And so I also think it’s a great city to to practice slow travel in because it’s a city where you

still see Parisians live.

25:34

So in contrast, if you were to go to Venice, which is a beautiful city, it’s very unique, but there

are no locals there.

25:41

So it kind of doesn’t feel like an authentic experience when you go to Venice because you’re not

seeing any locals.

25:47

It’s like the Disneyland of Italy because it’s a city built for tourism.

But Paris have Parisians still live in the most touristy areas of the city.

25:59

You still see them walking and they still go to the landmarks.

They might not go to the Eiffel Tower, but you’ll still see them walking very slowly in the Louvre

26:08

or at some of the best museums there.

You’ll see them in the gardens, you know, sitting with a friend or reading a book.

26:14

So they really do live in their city.

There’s not areas of the city that they kind of avoid because they feel it’s too touristy.

26:23

And so I feel that it’s one of the best cities to kind of practice slow living because you get to

see the people who live there practice it themselves.

26:33

That’s beautiful.

I think one of the things I really liked most about Paris when I was there, and I wish I took more

26:40

time to do that, is just really sitting down at any cafe, or maybe a cafe that overlooks a famous

area and just enjoying watching life pass by.

26:52

Because I love when I travel to like people watch and I feel like Paris is a great place to to just

go enjoy, have that coffee, get a drink, do anything.

27:00

If somebody’s a smoker, not advocating for it, but sit on a bench and have a smoke or do whatever

you’d like, you know, just really enjoy the pace.

27:07

Yeah.

You know, it’s one of the cities that you still can sit in a cafe from 9:00 and be there the entire

27:14

day, and you can have a coffee and then it can, you know, move into a lunch and then it could, you

know, move into happy hour and have a glass of wine.

27:22

So, like, you really aren’t rushed out of any place in Paris.

There’s no like turning over of tables when you’re in a cafe or a Bistro.

27:32

You get to be able to really enjoy that time.

And it’s great.

27:35

Just as you said, for people watching, and that’s part of slow travel is just observing life, just

watching it go by.

27:42

And it’s a great way to watch the local Parisians, how they kind of go about their day.

And that could be in a park if you don’t want to sit or along the sun.

27:51

I love walking up the sun and then back down the sun.

And, you know, there’s just something to being able to walk.

27:58

You have the, you know, the river kind of rustling along with you.

You watch the the boats kind of go by, but as you’re walking through you get to admire the the

28:06

landmarks or the architecture as you’re moving through the city and through each of the around E

mountains as you’re walking.

28:13

Feels like a stronger tie to community too.

I’ve been on this community kick lately.

28:17

I was just in Iceland and they were talking about how the people who live there are very happy and

community is such a big part of it.

28:24

And sounds like in Paris too.

If you’re spending all day in a cafe, you probably build relationships with people who work there or

28:30

who are also there.

Yeah, You know, that’s a that’s a really good thing that you’re you’re raising Kimberly.

28:36

In terms of the community aspect, one of the things about the culture of French people, particularly

the Parisians is that they are very loyal to their neighborhood.

28:47

And so if they live in the 6th along these mall near Saint Germain, they only will go to that cheese

maker that’s on their street or the, the flower shop or the boulangerie, the butcher, like they,

29:03

they really do.

It is really a community feel because those are the places that they, they will stay.

29:09

I have an example of, of that when, when I go, I stay for long periods of time and I always am in a

rented apartment and it usually takes me about a day or two days where then when I leave for the

29:23

day, I will have, you know, the shopkeepers out on the street who will now recognize me and who will

say, you know, bonjour, Madam, you know, bonjour.

29:32

Like they, they will like greet me and give me a greeting because, oh, she’s, I’ve seen her now come

and go.

29:38

And she, you know, was part of our community.

And so I love that about what you had said about Iceland, where they have the sense of feeling

29:46

happy.

And there’s that, that there’s that real connection of, of community and feeling loyal to the

29:53

shopkeepers of where Parisians live and sticking to them, and that loyalty to their their local

shops that are there.

30:02

I know you mentioned it was 11 times, correct, that you said you’ve been to Paris.

And I’m sure a lot of those times, you know, for an extended period of time.

30:11

But if somebody is going to Paris for their first time, how much time would you recommend that they

spend there?

30:19

And I’m curious from a perspective of as a slow traveller, which I’m sure you could probably say

weeks upon weeks and just enjoying it, but realistically as a slow traveller or somebody who is

30:30

either go, go, go or definitely moves a little fast, I’m kind of curious on both perspectives.

Yeah, I think that for a first time traveller, you know, three to four full days is is a good

30:39

number.

Most people go to Paris and they use it as their launching point to go either to other regions in,

30:46

in France or maybe they’re taking the train to London or to Brussels or to to Berlin.

And so I think for your first time, it probably is a good idea to maybe just go for three to four

30:58

days so it’s not an overwhelming city and maybe your first time to Europe.

I should also preface that if it’s your first time going to Europe too, you might not want to spend

31:08

any longer there because it’s it’s just kind of a neat way to package your itinerary of a short stay

there, especially if you don’t live in a big city, maybe in the US.

31:18

And so, yeah, I would say, you know, three to four days would be great.

And you can do a lot in three to four days.

31:25

The beauty about Paris is it really is a small compact city, even though it’s a big city and it’s

easy to to walk into, to get around, even if you wanted to to use the metro, but you know, ideally

31:37

to walk.

It’s a city that you know, it’s it’s surprisingly one that you can be able to kind of cover off in

31:43

in three to four days if you don’t have that length of time of of staying any longer.

So, Renee.

31:49

I have a personal question.

I am going to the South of France in the end of May and it’s only going to be for a few days.

31:58

I’m kind of adding on to a Mykonos trip that I have and I’m dabbling with the idea of flying into

Paris and then taking the train to the South of France.

32:07

I would only have probably like 8 hours get in around 11:00 AM and take the night train into South

of France.

32:16

I’m thinking probably the only thing I really would want to do would be that picnic underneath the

Eiffel Tower.

32:22

Would you say with that short amount of time, go for it, still do it or like what’s your take on

that?

32:28

Is it worth?

I would do it just because I love the city.

32:31

Yeah, but so context.

You’ve not been to Paris before and you’re flying overnight, so you have jet lag.

32:39

I have jet lag but.

It doesn’t scare me.

32:41

OK, OK, so I, yeah, absolutely.

Why not?

32:45

I’ve gone to Paris for the day.

And so I’d done it from when I was, you know, spending two weeks in Belgium and I’m like, hey, I’m

32:53

going to hop on the train and I’m going to go to Paris for the day.

So like, I, I feel like you could go and just go and have that one experience if you want to have

33:00

it, or you could just, you know, pick one of the neighborhoods.

I’d say Le Marais, if you were to do that, like it’s a great neighborhood to just kind of go and

33:08

spend the day.

I would probably say maybe stay close to the train station that you need to get to in that evening.

33:15

And I would recommend just, you know, being close to there, picking a great restaurant and just

like, you know, exploring that neighborhood and then hop on the trade and go down.

33:26

You mentioning a restaurant has prompted me to think of something.

Of course, Paris is known to be an amazing culinary city.

33:33

How do you approach food and dining in Paris?

Are there any hidden gems restaurant wise that the locals go to that wouldn’t be on a tourist spot

33:41

that you can name drop?

And any favorite local markets that you like to go to?

33:45

Yeah.

There are great restaurants in every Arandis mall of Paris.

33:50

So there’s 20 Arandis malls or districts of of Paris.

And unfortunately they’re changing all, all the time.

33:56

But there are some Paris institutions that have been around for centuries that, you know, yes,

they’re absolutely touristy, but I love to go to them because they’ve got a really good atmosphere

34:08

and vibe to them.

You know, those are the coffee shops where, you know, famous people have gone and sat and, you know,

34:15

had had historical debates over there in in Saint Germain, there’s Le de Margaux, there’s Cafe Fleur

Le Pro Coupe is the oldest restaurant in Paris.

34:27

Lip is in the Parisian institution to go to the trend.

Blue is in the train station to say whatever train station you’re you’re at.

34:36

Maybe I’ll send you a note.

Kimberly, you might want to go and and do that one.

34:40

It’s absolutely beautiful and stunning.

So I think that, you know, those kind of Parisian institutions, there’s nothing wrong with going for

34:48

them and knowing that it’s the ambiance that you’re going for and not necessarily the food.

You’re not going to walk away and say that was the best meal I had, but sometimes the vibe

34:59

overcompensates for the for the food and the experience.

Like it’s about the experience.

35:03

Definitely if you’re a foodie, I would say go to the temp Arandis Mall.

So that’s a very kind of trendy area in Paris.

35:12

There’s lots of fusion type restaurants that they have there.

You won’t necessarily find the kind of traditional Parisian Bistro brassiere and they’ve got great

35:21

cocktail bars.

So it’s a really a good night scene as well as that food scene and market streets.

35:26

I always, always go to market streets and there’s a few of them.

So there’s Rue Claire.

35:32

So if you were ever to do the picnic idea under the Eiffel Tower, you want to walk to Rue Claire,

which is, you know, a 5 minute walk from the Eiffel Tower and that’s a Market Street where you can

35:43

get everything in one stop.

So they have every, you know, you’ve got your, your wine shop, you’ve got your boulangerie, you’ve

35:51

got your cheese shop, you’ve got, you know, your fruit market stands.

So you pick up a little bit of everything and then you kind of make yourself have a picnic.

35:59

And I have done that actually with my husband.

That was kind of our a thing to our tradition to kind of do.

36:06

And then there’s also Rue de Mar, which is it’s a long street that actually runs starts in La Mantra

at the top of the hill and you go all the way down to the 9th around the very small.

36:18

And that I love that street because you really do see the locals kind of pop back and forth into

their favorite shops.

36:26

And it’s got a mix of, you know, there’s antiques on that street and other little shops, but it’s a

great kind of a foodie St. that you see there.

36:35

Rue de Bock is another great neighborhood kind of foodies, food Market Street.

And there’s, there’s lots of them.

36:44

I, I, I love going there, whether it’s market day or not market day, you really do get to kind of

pop in, pick yourself up, you know, a chunk of cheese and your baguette.

36:55

Maybe that’s what you’re having as you unwind from your day, or maybe you’re, you’re having that to

tide you over before your late night dinner.

37:02

Lots of good options.

I know I was going to say you listed a plethora of places and that’s just off the top of your head.

37:07

And I know you’ve experienced countless more.

But apparently if those are the ones that came to the forefront, those are the places that

37:14

definitely need to be on anybody’s list.

Kind of as we’re wrapping things up here, of course, talking Paris, I’m just curious to know if

37:23

there’s specific times of the year that you would recommend visiting Paris and why?

So let me start with when I don’t recommend you go to Paris.

37:33

It’s a great way to start it actually.

So there’s two months of the year that I probably would not recommend going to Paris, and that’s

37:41

summer months.

But I understand people have their summer vacation, they have children, maybe they’re teachers.

37:48

So if you are going to go either July or August, go in July or go late June into early July.

And the reason why is because August is just different in Paris, because the Parisians take their

38:03

four or five week vacation and they leave the city.

And so many of the great restaurants that you might read in blogs to go to or shops, you know, those

38:12

kind of boutique shops, those vintage shops that you want to kind of go and look at, they often

close for weeks at a time.

38:20

And it is in August that they do that.

And so I would probably not recommend going in in August if you want to have that kind of authentic

38:28

experience.

But there’s three times of the year that I do really love, and that is the springtime.

38:33

So, you know, the cliche of springtime in Paris.

But the reason why I do like spring in Paris is around the cherry blossom season.

38:42

So end of March into early April, the city turns pink with cherry blossoms.

And it’s, it’s so beautiful to kind of walk through.

38:52

And you don’t necessarily have to go to a park or a garden to see them.

They’re, they’re lining the streets as well.

38:57

But it’s just such a lovely time to be able to see them is wonderful.

So in the fall, there’s just something about the fall and being in Paris that, you know, the Linden

39:07

trees that are everywhere just turn golden.

And so the city is just all yellow.

39:13

And the bistros kind of just get a little bit more cozier.

The the heat lamps turn on and, you know, you sit outside with a blanket on your lap.

39:21

It’s just, it’s, it’s just a lovely, lovely time.

And then I would say also to go at Christmas time.

39:28

So they do have Christmas markets.

And for anyone who has experienced probably Christmas markets in maybe Germany or Austria, you

39:35

wouldn’t go for the Christmas markets in Paris.

But what Paris does really well is their decorations and their lights.

39:42

So their window displays in every shop, even like a cheese shop, they are just so beautiful and

elegant.

39:50

The designer stores, like the fashion houses that use that are all in Paris.

They do like elaborate gorgeous displays in, in their in their window shops.

40:00

And so I’ve been twice now and I just came back from from Paris in December and it was my second

time going at that time.

40:07

So I really do recommend those, those three times in the year.

Well, I love it.

40:12

I love how each one of those times, the three that you mentioned have a specific reason and the fact

that two of them, the first two were nature oriented just to see the city, you know, in terms of

40:22

like the cherry blossoms and the other tree with the fall autumn colors.

But that’s really interesting.

40:27

I did not know that about in Paris that they have cherries for cherry blossoms that I immediately

think of March, April cherry blossoms, either Japan or Washington DC.

40:36

So that’s cool to know that Paris is actually on that list also, and I think would be an amazing

place to see that.

40:41

Yeah, I’m without the crowds.

Yeah, absolutely.

40:45

Renee, before you wrap up, can you tell our audience a little more about the resources that you have

on your site and where they can find you?

40:54

Because I’m sure we have sparked some interest in slow travel.

Yeah.

40:58

So my website is Dream Plan Experience and some of the resources that I have on there are the

articles of course.

41:05

So I do have slow travel articles, but I also then do have, you know, itinerary, things to do type

of articles.

41:14

My blog focus is about 5 countries actually.

So it’s France, Germany, Italy, Portugal and Spain.

41:21

Those are the five countries that I return to over and over again that I just kind of focus on and

my articles are both slow travel experience, but it’s also just for the regular traveler who’s maybe

41:34

never been there, but who wants to have some some information for those that who really are keen

about Paris or slow travel.

41:42

If you become a subscriber, you can get 15 practical tips about being to kind of practice slow

travel.

41:50

And also I have an e-book.

So I wrote an e-book about experience Paris, a fine the joy and slow travel.

41:57

And so it is through all my trips of going to Paris.

It is, you know, 67 kind of hidden gem places that are locals love to visit.

42:07

I love to visit kind of mixed in with my tips about slow travel, but then also some little bit of

personal stories that about my time in in Paris.

42:16

And then I also have walking tours for three neighborhoods in Paris that are pretty popular that

people can download and take those walking tours.

42:27

And it, it’s bringing you to different points of interest within those neighborhoods, but also

sharing.

42:33

Well, you want to stop, you want to walk down this street because it’s the prettiest one, or you

want to stop at this restaurant or this Cafe because they’ve got the best coffee.

42:39

So I am kind of mixing it, you know, here’s some some points of interest that you want to catch, but

you also here’s how you want to walk to get to those because it’s the most scenic or it will it will

42:50

take you to different parts of that neighborhood.

Very cool, I will definitely check those out as I I dabble and consider going to Paris with that one

42:58

day.

That’s really cool.

42:59

Yeah, I love it and that we really appreciate having you on the podcast with us today.

I think it was just very informative in general, more so, of course, lots of people including us

43:09

that go, go, go mindset, really putting people into perspective of, yes, you can enjoy a trip,

taking it slow, experience it as a local, absorb it all in.

43:18

And definitely Kim alluded to it earlier, we’re already on that trend at our age of just being like,

oh, that’s where we’re gearing towards.

43:25

So now I feel like I’m in full slow travel gear right now.

That’s awesome that I got to maybe inspire a couple of people then.

43:33

Oh, and even.

More who are going to be listening.

43:35

Thanks so, so much for coming on.

We really, really appreciate it, Renee.

43:39

Thanks for having me.

Hi.

43:40

Thank you, Renee.

Bye.